It has come to my attention that there are some mis-conceptions
about art/clue ownership. Here is my take at clarifying the
issue so that we are all on the same sheet of music:
The artists who create clues and art own their work, unless they
explicitly disclaim that ownership. No one who maintains the web
sites, e-mail lists, or network owns it, nor is there shared
ownership of that work by the subscribers to the e-mail list,
the hunters of the letterboxes, etc.
I bring this up for two reasons. a) because concern has been
expressed to me about the fact that I wish to retain the
exclusive rights to my art. I indeed do wish to do this, simply
because I do not want anyone publishing or altering it without my
consent, nor do I wish anyone to make profit on that which I give
access to freely. (Imagine if someone took a clue who did not know
what they were doing, and edited it to fix the grammar, and in so
doing made the clue unsolvable, because the grammar error was
important to solving the clue -- don't say it cannot happen :-)).
I believe this is a reasonable position, and was under the
impression that this was a position shared by most everyone who
is creating letterbox art.
And b) perhaps more importantly, because I was asked permission
(in a legitimate way) to reproduce some of the work on the web
site. I believe I did the correct thing by saying that permission
had to be obtained from each artist. I would think it was wrong
if someone else granted permission to reproduce my clues in a
guidebook, for example, without discussing it with me.
Of course, we can do what we want, I suppose. We can put something
on the web site that says, "unless otherwise specified, the art here
is public domain", or "unless otherwise specified, the art here is
the property of its author", etc. Whatever people want to do, it
should be clear, and it should be easy for people who do not wish to
accept the default option to opt out of it.
If people generally agree with this thesis, then no action is
necessary, I suppose, except perhaps a notation of this fact on
the web site, which I will add in a few days if there are no
objections. If people feel I am off base, which is always possible :-),
then perhaps we should clarify the issue before someone comes along
and wants to produce and sell guidebooks or the like.
Sorry for the interruption; I know the stuff I tend to bring up can be
tedious at times, but sometimes it is important. We now return you
to your regularly scheduled letterboxing :-)
--
Randy "the mapsurfer"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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art ownership
12 messages in this thread |
Started on 1999-05-06
[L-USA] art ownership
From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) |
Date: 1999-05-06 22:51:55 UTC-04:00
[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: Daniel Servatius (elf@pclink.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 00:51:41 UTC-05:00
Since this is a strictly non-profit site I recommend that you only
put things on it that have the utility of fun and creativity and are
intended to always remain free. This does not mean they cannot
be professional or have value though. Even the site has value
but its still strictly free. We've been down this road before
and it always comes back to this: Its all free. If you do not
intend your work to be free you should not contribute it here.
I know its legit to make money and start your own thing like
ILC. I say nothing against that. I just don't personally believe
in it for letterboxing so I ask you to not support a profit-type
of letterboxing or promote a sense of ownership of material that's
meant to be free (as all the material is at this site). Again, I
don't say its wrong to make money on your material, just that I
hope its not your intention to try to do that here as we've strictly
defined ourselves as a non-profit organization.
Dan'l
St. Paul, MN
Ps.
I also don't care if clues are reproduced and passed around. In fact,
I encourage it as it may help the hobby to grow.
Randy Hall wrote:
>
> It has come to my attention that there are some mis-conceptions
> about art/clue ownership. Here is my take at clarifying the
> issue so that we are all on the same sheet of music:
>
> The artists who create clues and art own their work, unless they
> explicitly disclaim that ownership. No one who maintains the web
> sites, e-mail lists, or network owns it, nor is there shared
> ownership of that work by the subscribers to the e-mail list,
> the hunters of the letterboxes, etc.
>
> I bring this up for two reasons. a) because concern has been
> expressed to me about the fact that I wish to retain the
> exclusive rights to my art. I indeed do wish to do this, simply
> because I do not want anyone publishing or altering it without my
> consent, nor do I wish anyone to make profit on that which I give
> access to freely. (Imagine if someone took a clue who did not know
> what they were doing, and edited it to fix the grammar, and in so
> doing made the clue unsolvable, because the grammar error was
> important to solving the clue -- don't say it cannot happen :-)).
> I believe this is a reasonable position, and was under the
> impression that this was a position shared by most everyone who
> is creating letterbox art.
>
> And b) perhaps more importantly, because I was asked permission
> (in a legitimate way) to reproduce some of the work on the web
> site. I believe I did the correct thing by saying that permission
> had to be obtained from each artist. I would think it was wrong
> if someone else granted permission to reproduce my clues in a
> guidebook, for example, without discussing it with me.
>
> Of course, we can do what we want, I suppose. We can put something
> on the web site that says, "unless otherwise specified, the art here
> is public domain", or "unless otherwise specified, the art here is
> the property of its author", etc. Whatever people want to do, it
> should be clear, and it should be easy for people who do not wish to
> accept the default option to opt out of it.
>
> If people generally agree with this thesis, then no action is
> necessary, I suppose, except perhaps a notation of this fact on
> the web site, which I will add in a few days if there are no
> objections. If people feel I am off base, which is always possible :-),
> then perhaps we should clarify the issue before someone comes along
> and wants to produce and sell guidebooks or the like.
>
> Sorry for the interruption; I know the stuff I tend to bring up can be
> tedious at times, but sometimes it is important. We now return you
> to your regularly scheduled letterboxing :-)
>
> --
> Randy "the mapsurfer"
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -Alive
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put things on it that have the utility of fun and creativity and are
intended to always remain free. This does not mean they cannot
be professional or have value though. Even the site has value
but its still strictly free. We've been down this road before
and it always comes back to this: Its all free. If you do not
intend your work to be free you should not contribute it here.
I know its legit to make money and start your own thing like
ILC. I say nothing against that. I just don't personally believe
in it for letterboxing so I ask you to not support a profit-type
of letterboxing or promote a sense of ownership of material that's
meant to be free (as all the material is at this site). Again, I
don't say its wrong to make money on your material, just that I
hope its not your intention to try to do that here as we've strictly
defined ourselves as a non-profit organization.
Dan'l
St. Paul, MN
Ps.
I also don't care if clues are reproduced and passed around. In fact,
I encourage it as it may help the hobby to grow.
Randy Hall wrote:
>
> It has come to my attention that there are some mis-conceptions
> about art/clue ownership. Here is my take at clarifying the
> issue so that we are all on the same sheet of music:
>
> The artists who create clues and art own their work, unless they
> explicitly disclaim that ownership. No one who maintains the web
> sites, e-mail lists, or network owns it, nor is there shared
> ownership of that work by the subscribers to the e-mail list,
> the hunters of the letterboxes, etc.
>
> I bring this up for two reasons. a) because concern has been
> expressed to me about the fact that I wish to retain the
> exclusive rights to my art. I indeed do wish to do this, simply
> because I do not want anyone publishing or altering it without my
> consent, nor do I wish anyone to make profit on that which I give
> access to freely. (Imagine if someone took a clue who did not know
> what they were doing, and edited it to fix the grammar, and in so
> doing made the clue unsolvable, because the grammar error was
> important to solving the clue -- don't say it cannot happen :-)).
> I believe this is a reasonable position, and was under the
> impression that this was a position shared by most everyone who
> is creating letterbox art.
>
> And b) perhaps more importantly, because I was asked permission
> (in a legitimate way) to reproduce some of the work on the web
> site. I believe I did the correct thing by saying that permission
> had to be obtained from each artist. I would think it was wrong
> if someone else granted permission to reproduce my clues in a
> guidebook, for example, without discussing it with me.
>
> Of course, we can do what we want, I suppose. We can put something
> on the web site that says, "unless otherwise specified, the art here
> is public domain", or "unless otherwise specified, the art here is
> the property of its author", etc. Whatever people want to do, it
> should be clear, and it should be easy for people who do not wish to
> accept the default option to opt out of it.
>
> If people generally agree with this thesis, then no action is
> necessary, I suppose, except perhaps a notation of this fact on
> the web site, which I will add in a few days if there are no
> objections. If people feel I am off base, which is always possible :-),
> then perhaps we should clarify the issue before someone comes along
> and wants to produce and sell guidebooks or the like.
>
> Sorry for the interruption; I know the stuff I tend to bring up can be
> tedious at times, but sometimes it is important. We now return you
> to your regularly scheduled letterboxing :-)
>
> --
> Randy "the mapsurfer"
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -Alive
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 08:30:53 UTC-04:00
> Since this is a strictly non-profit site I recommend that you only
> put things on it that have the utility of fun and creativity and are
> intended to always remain free. This does not mean they cannot
> be professional or have value though. Even the site has value
> but its still strictly free. We've been down this road before
> and it always comes back to this: Its all free.
Dan,
I think you missed the point. It is _not free_ for a third party
to come along and publish art without permission of the individual
artists, nor is it free for _me_ to give permission to a third party
to publish _Tom's_ clues. That is all I was saying.
Think "free redistribution", not "free beer".
Randy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> put things on it that have the utility of fun and creativity and are
> intended to always remain free. This does not mean they cannot
> be professional or have value though. Even the site has value
> but its still strictly free. We've been down this road before
> and it always comes back to this: Its all free.
Dan,
I think you missed the point. It is _not free_ for a third party
to come along and publish art without permission of the individual
artists, nor is it free for _me_ to give permission to a third party
to publish _Tom's_ clues. That is all I was saying.
Think "free redistribution", not "free beer".
Randy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: Bonita McLaughlin (bonitasusan@hotmail.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 05:54:54 UTC-07:00
Randy, you are right on target. The stamp art that people create and the
clues they write are their property and should not be reproduced and
especially not altered without their consent. I think we do need a note on
the web site that makes this clear.
Bonnie
>From: Randy Hall
>Reply-To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
>To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
>Subject: [L-USA] art ownership
>Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 22:51:55 -0400
>
>It has come to my attention that there are some mis-conceptions
>about art/clue ownership. Here is my take at clarifying the
>issue so that we are all on the same sheet of music:
>
>The artists who create clues and art own their work, unless they
>explicitly disclaim that ownership. No one who maintains the web
>sites, e-mail lists, or network owns it, nor is there shared
>ownership of that work by the subscribers to the e-mail list,
>the hunters of the letterboxes, etc.
>
>I bring this up for two reasons. a) because concern has been
>expressed to me about the fact that I wish to retain the
>exclusive rights to my art. I indeed do wish to do this, simply
>because I do not want anyone publishing or altering it without my
>consent, nor do I wish anyone to make profit on that which I give
>access to freely. (Imagine if someone took a clue who did not know
>what they were doing, and edited it to fix the grammar, and in so
>doing made the clue unsolvable, because the grammar error was
>important to solving the clue -- don't say it cannot happen :-)).
>I believe this is a reasonable position, and was under the
>impression that this was a position shared by most everyone who
>is creating letterbox art.
>
>And b) perhaps more importantly, because I was asked permission
>(in a legitimate way) to reproduce some of the work on the web
>site. I believe I did the correct thing by saying that permission
>had to be obtained from each artist. I would think it was wrong
>if someone else granted permission to reproduce my clues in a
>guidebook, for example, without discussing it with me.
>
>Of course, we can do what we want, I suppose. We can put something
>on the web site that says, "unless otherwise specified, the art here
>is public domain", or "unless otherwise specified, the art here is
>the property of its author", etc. Whatever people want to do, it
>should be clear, and it should be easy for people who do not wish to
>accept the default option to opt out of it.
>
>If people generally agree with this thesis, then no action is
>necessary, I suppose, except perhaps a notation of this fact on
>the web site, which I will add in a few days if there are no
>objections. If people feel I am off base, which is always possible :-),
>then perhaps we should clarify the issue before someone comes along
>and wants to produce and sell guidebooks or the like.
>
>Sorry for the interruption; I know the stuff I tend to bring up can be
>tedious at times, but sometimes it is important. We now return you
>to your regularly scheduled letterboxing :-)
>
>--
>Randy "the mapsurfer"
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to win a Palm Pilot V!
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>http://www.eGroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
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clues they write are their property and should not be reproduced and
especially not altered without their consent. I think we do need a note on
the web site that makes this clear.
Bonnie
>From: Randy Hall
>Reply-To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
>To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
>Subject: [L-USA] art ownership
>Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 22:51:55 -0400
>
>It has come to my attention that there are some mis-conceptions
>about art/clue ownership. Here is my take at clarifying the
>issue so that we are all on the same sheet of music:
>
>The artists who create clues and art own their work, unless they
>explicitly disclaim that ownership. No one who maintains the web
>sites, e-mail lists, or network owns it, nor is there shared
>ownership of that work by the subscribers to the e-mail list,
>the hunters of the letterboxes, etc.
>
>I bring this up for two reasons. a) because concern has been
>expressed to me about the fact that I wish to retain the
>exclusive rights to my art. I indeed do wish to do this, simply
>because I do not want anyone publishing or altering it without my
>consent, nor do I wish anyone to make profit on that which I give
>access to freely. (Imagine if someone took a clue who did not know
>what they were doing, and edited it to fix the grammar, and in so
>doing made the clue unsolvable, because the grammar error was
>important to solving the clue -- don't say it cannot happen :-)).
>I believe this is a reasonable position, and was under the
>impression that this was a position shared by most everyone who
>is creating letterbox art.
>
>And b) perhaps more importantly, because I was asked permission
>(in a legitimate way) to reproduce some of the work on the web
>site. I believe I did the correct thing by saying that permission
>had to be obtained from each artist. I would think it was wrong
>if someone else granted permission to reproduce my clues in a
>guidebook, for example, without discussing it with me.
>
>Of course, we can do what we want, I suppose. We can put something
>on the web site that says, "unless otherwise specified, the art here
>is public domain", or "unless otherwise specified, the art here is
>the property of its author", etc. Whatever people want to do, it
>should be clear, and it should be easy for people who do not wish to
>accept the default option to opt out of it.
>
>If people generally agree with this thesis, then no action is
>necessary, I suppose, except perhaps a notation of this fact on
>the web site, which I will add in a few days if there are no
>objections. If people feel I am off base, which is always possible :-),
>then perhaps we should clarify the issue before someone comes along
>and wants to produce and sell guidebooks or the like.
>
>Sorry for the interruption; I know the stuff I tend to bring up can be
>tedious at times, but sometimes it is important. We now return you
>to your regularly scheduled letterboxing :-)
>
>--
>Randy "the mapsurfer"
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to win a Palm Pilot V!
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>http://www.eGroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: Bonita McLaughlin (bonitasusan@hotmail.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 05:56:29 UTC-07:00
I don't agree with Dan on this. Anyone can get my clues and look at my
stamp images on this website, because I have chosen to post them here. But
these things are my "intellectual property" and should not be reproduced,
say, in a magazine article or rewritten in a guidebook or whatever without
my permission. If one of my paintings, for example, is posted on a
gallery's web site, that does not mean the image is "free" or that people
can use that image however they want without consulting me. I'm not talking
about profit here at all (I have no interest in making money from
letterboxing) but of control over the distribution and final form of one's
creative efforts.
Bonnie
>From: Daniel Servatius
>Reply-To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
>To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
>Subject: [L-USA] Re: art ownership
>Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 00:51:41 -0500
>
>Since this is a strictly non-profit site I recommend that you only
>put things on it that have the utility of fun and creativity and are
>intended to always remain free. This does not mean they cannot
>be professional or have value though. Even the site has value
>but its still strictly free. We've been down this road before
>and it always comes back to this: Its all free. If you do not
>intend your work to be free you should not contribute it here.
>I know its legit to make money and start your own thing like
>ILC. I say nothing against that. I just don't personally believe
>in it for letterboxing so I ask you to not support a profit-type
>of letterboxing or promote a sense of ownership of material that's
>meant to be free (as all the material is at this site). Again, I
>don't say its wrong to make money on your material, just that I
>hope its not your intention to try to do that here as we've strictly
>defined ourselves as a non-profit organization.
>Dan'l
>St. Paul, MN
>
>Ps.
>I also don't care if clues are reproduced and passed around. In fact,
>I encourage it as it may help the hobby to grow.
>
>Randy Hall wrote:
> >
> > It has come to my attention that there are some mis-conceptions
> > about art/clue ownership. Here is my take at clarifying the
> > issue so that we are all on the same sheet of music:
> >
> > The artists who create clues and art own their work, unless they
> > explicitly disclaim that ownership. No one who maintains the web
> > sites, e-mail lists, or network owns it, nor is there shared
> > ownership of that work by the subscribers to the e-mail list,
> > the hunters of the letterboxes, etc.
> >
> > I bring this up for two reasons. a) because concern has been
> > expressed to me about the fact that I wish to retain the
> > exclusive rights to my art. I indeed do wish to do this, simply
> > because I do not want anyone publishing or altering it without my
> > consent, nor do I wish anyone to make profit on that which I give
> > access to freely. (Imagine if someone took a clue who did not know
> > what they were doing, and edited it to fix the grammar, and in so
> > doing made the clue unsolvable, because the grammar error was
> > important to solving the clue -- don't say it cannot happen :-)).
> > I believe this is a reasonable position, and was under the
> > impression that this was a position shared by most everyone who
> > is creating letterbox art.
> >
> > And b) perhaps more importantly, because I was asked permission
> > (in a legitimate way) to reproduce some of the work on the web
> > site. I believe I did the correct thing by saying that permission
> > had to be obtained from each artist. I would think it was wrong
> > if someone else granted permission to reproduce my clues in a
> > guidebook, for example, without discussing it with me.
> >
> > Of course, we can do what we want, I suppose. We can put something
> > on the web site that says, "unless otherwise specified, the art here
> > is public domain", or "unless otherwise specified, the art here is
> > the property of its author", etc. Whatever people want to do, it
> > should be clear, and it should be easy for people who do not wish to
> > accept the default option to opt out of it.
> >
> > If people generally agree with this thesis, then no action is
> > necessary, I suppose, except perhaps a notation of this fact on
> > the web site, which I will add in a few days if there are no
> > objections. If people feel I am off base, which is always possible
>:-),
> > then perhaps we should clarify the issue before someone comes along
> > and wants to produce and sell guidebooks or the like.
> >
> > Sorry for the interruption; I know the stuff I tend to bring up can be
> > tedious at times, but sometimes it is important. We now return you
> > to your regularly scheduled letterboxing :-)
> >
> > --
> > Randy "the mapsurfer"
> >
> >
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> -Alive
>User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD easynet-nav (Win98; U)
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> >
>
> easyЂnav (Win98;
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> > www.eGroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
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stamp images on this website, because I have chosen to post them here. But
these things are my "intellectual property" and should not be reproduced,
say, in a magazine article or rewritten in a guidebook or whatever without
my permission. If one of my paintings, for example, is posted on a
gallery's web site, that does not mean the image is "free" or that people
can use that image however they want without consulting me. I'm not talking
about profit here at all (I have no interest in making money from
letterboxing) but of control over the distribution and final form of one's
creative efforts.
Bonnie
>From: Daniel Servatius
>Reply-To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
>To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
>Subject: [L-USA] Re: art ownership
>Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 00:51:41 -0500
>
>Since this is a strictly non-profit site I recommend that you only
>put things on it that have the utility of fun and creativity and are
>intended to always remain free. This does not mean they cannot
>be professional or have value though. Even the site has value
>but its still strictly free. We've been down this road before
>and it always comes back to this: Its all free. If you do not
>intend your work to be free you should not contribute it here.
>I know its legit to make money and start your own thing like
>ILC. I say nothing against that. I just don't personally believe
>in it for letterboxing so I ask you to not support a profit-type
>of letterboxing or promote a sense of ownership of material that's
>meant to be free (as all the material is at this site). Again, I
>don't say its wrong to make money on your material, just that I
>hope its not your intention to try to do that here as we've strictly
>defined ourselves as a non-profit organization.
>Dan'l
>St. Paul, MN
>
>Ps.
>I also don't care if clues are reproduced and passed around. In fact,
>I encourage it as it may help the hobby to grow.
>
>Randy Hall wrote:
> >
> > It has come to my attention that there are some mis-conceptions
> > about art/clue ownership. Here is my take at clarifying the
> > issue so that we are all on the same sheet of music:
> >
> > The artists who create clues and art own their work, unless they
> > explicitly disclaim that ownership. No one who maintains the web
> > sites, e-mail lists, or network owns it, nor is there shared
> > ownership of that work by the subscribers to the e-mail list,
> > the hunters of the letterboxes, etc.
> >
> > I bring this up for two reasons. a) because concern has been
> > expressed to me about the fact that I wish to retain the
> > exclusive rights to my art. I indeed do wish to do this, simply
> > because I do not want anyone publishing or altering it without my
> > consent, nor do I wish anyone to make profit on that which I give
> > access to freely. (Imagine if someone took a clue who did not know
> > what they were doing, and edited it to fix the grammar, and in so
> > doing made the clue unsolvable, because the grammar error was
> > important to solving the clue -- don't say it cannot happen :-)).
> > I believe this is a reasonable position, and was under the
> > impression that this was a position shared by most everyone who
> > is creating letterbox art.
> >
> > And b) perhaps more importantly, because I was asked permission
> > (in a legitimate way) to reproduce some of the work on the web
> > site. I believe I did the correct thing by saying that permission
> > had to be obtained from each artist. I would think it was wrong
> > if someone else granted permission to reproduce my clues in a
> > guidebook, for example, without discussing it with me.
> >
> > Of course, we can do what we want, I suppose. We can put something
> > on the web site that says, "unless otherwise specified, the art here
> > is public domain", or "unless otherwise specified, the art here is
> > the property of its author", etc. Whatever people want to do, it
> > should be clear, and it should be easy for people who do not wish to
> > accept the default option to opt out of it.
> >
> > If people generally agree with this thesis, then no action is
> > necessary, I suppose, except perhaps a notation of this fact on
> > the web site, which I will add in a few days if there are no
> > objections. If people feel I am off base, which is always possible
>:-),
> > then perhaps we should clarify the issue before someone comes along
> > and wants to produce and sell guidebooks or the like.
> >
> > Sorry for the interruption; I know the stuff I tend to bring up can be
> > tedious at times, but sometimes it is important. We now return you
> > to your regularly scheduled letterboxing :-)
> >
> > --
> > Randy "the mapsurfer"
> >
> >
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> -Alive
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: (jdewolf@mail.icrsurvey.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 13:28:28 UTC
I agree w/ Randy, Bonnie, Erik, ... While I don't consider myself an artist in the least, I respect the rights of the artist who developed the clues/stamp art and they should have final say on how and when they're used.
JDW
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: Thom Cheney (tcgrafx@imagina.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 07:55:48 UTC-07:00
someone, and I'm not exactly sure who, wrote:
>
> Perhaps those whho feel in like manner could have their stamp/clue sets
> followed by a "copyrite 1999" line on the page? However, I feel that a
> blanket statement covering all would be better, saying, perhaps, "Unless
> noted on the individual clue page, all clues and images are not to be
> reproduced without permission."
Unfortunately, I have recently been put into a position where I have had
to scrutinize the US Copyright Law. The text of the Law is very
clear.... the artist retains all rights (especially duplication &
distribution) to his/her work unless expressly stated in a signed
contract. In the absence of a contract the artist STILL owns the
rights... even if the original art is sold. Ownership and copyrights
are 2 distinct issues. There are exceptions, but they don't apply here.
Since about 1991 it has not been neccesary to include the handy little
circle-C copyright symbol. It is still used simply to remind those who
who don't know any better.
I support a copyright page on the website that makes it clear.. we
encourage use of the clues & art for the purpose of finding
letterboxes. Any use for redistribution or publishing is otherwise
expressly prohibited without the signed permission of the artist. The
safety statement that the Graphic Artist Guild recommends is: "All
other rights, unless specifically granted are retained by the
artist(s)." That pretty much covers any contingencies.
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
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>
> Perhaps those whho feel in like manner could have their stamp/clue sets
> followed by a "copyrite 1999" line on the page? However, I feel that a
> blanket statement covering all would be better, saying, perhaps, "Unless
> noted on the individual clue page, all clues and images are not to be
> reproduced without permission."
Unfortunately, I have recently been put into a position where I have had
to scrutinize the US Copyright Law. The text of the Law is very
clear.... the artist retains all rights (especially duplication &
distribution) to his/her work unless expressly stated in a signed
contract. In the absence of a contract the artist STILL owns the
rights... even if the original art is sold. Ownership and copyrights
are 2 distinct issues. There are exceptions, but they don't apply here.
Since about 1991 it has not been neccesary to include the handy little
circle-C copyright symbol. It is still used simply to remind those who
who don't know any better.
I support a copyright page on the website that makes it clear.. we
encourage use of the clues & art for the purpose of finding
letterboxes. Any use for redistribution or publishing is otherwise
expressly prohibited without the signed permission of the artist. The
safety statement that the Graphic Artist Guild recommends is: "All
other rights, unless specifically granted are retained by the
artist(s)." That pretty much covers any contingencies.
--
Thom Cheney
tcgrafx... among other things
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: Bonita McLaughlin (bonitasusan@hotmail.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 08:11:19 UTC-07:00
Thom Cheney wrote:
>I support a copyright page on the website that makes it clear.. we
>encourage use of the clues & art for the purpose of finding
>letterboxes. Any use for redistribution or publishing is otherwise
>expressly prohibited without the signed permission of the artist. The
>safety statement that the Graphic Artist Guild recommends is: "All
>other rights, unless specifically granted are retained by the
>artist(s)." That pretty much covers any contingencies.
>
I think this statement works fine. Shall we add it to our site?
Bonnie
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>I support a copyright page on the website that makes it clear.. we
>encourage use of the clues & art for the purpose of finding
>letterboxes. Any use for redistribution or publishing is otherwise
>expressly prohibited without the signed permission of the artist. The
>safety statement that the Graphic Artist Guild recommends is: "All
>other rights, unless specifically granted are retained by the
>artist(s)." That pretty much covers any contingencies.
>
I think this statement works fine. Shall we add it to our site?
Bonnie
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: erik/susan davis (davisarc@wcvt.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 08:27:56 UTC-07:00
Randy Hall wrote:
>
> It has come to my attention that there are some mis-conceptions
> about art/clue ownership. Here is my take at clarifying the
> issue so that we are all on the same sheet of music:
>
> The artists who create clues and art own their work, unless they
> explicitly disclaim that ownership. No one who maintains the web
> sites, e-mail lists, or network owns it, nor is there shared
> ownership of that work by the subscribers to the e-mail list,
> the hunters of the letterboxes, etc.
>
> I bring this up for two reasons. a) because concern has been
> expressed to me about the fact that I wish to retain the
> exclusive rights to my art. I indeed do wish to do this, simply
> because I do not want anyone publishing or altering it without my
> consent, nor do I wish anyone to make profit on that which I give
> access to freely. (Imagine if someone took a clue who did not know
> what they were doing, and edited it to fix the grammar, and in so
> doing made the clue unsolvable, because the grammar error was
> important to solving the clue -- don't say it cannot happen :-)).
> I believe this is a reasonable position, and was under the
> impression that this was a position shared by most everyone who
> is creating letterbox art.
>
> And b) perhaps more importantly, because I was asked permission
> (in a legitimate way) to reproduce some of the work on the web
> site. I believe I did the correct thing by saying that permission
> had to be obtained from each artist. I would think it was wrong
> if someone else granted permission to reproduce my clues in a
> guidebook, for example, without discussing it with me.
>
> Of course, we can do what we want, I suppose. We can put something
> on the web site that says, "unless otherwise specified, the art here
> is public domain", or "unless otherwise specified, the art here is
> the property of its author", etc. Whatever people want to do, it
> should be clear, and it should be easy for people who do not wish to
> accept the default option to opt out of it.
>
> If people generally agree with this thesis, then no action is
> necessary, I suppose, except perhaps a notation of this fact on
> the web site, which I will add in a few days if there are no
> objections. If people feel I am off base, which is always possible :-),
> then perhaps we should clarify the issue before someone comes along
> and wants to produce and sell guidebooks or the like.
>
> Sorry for the interruption; I know the stuff I tend to bring up can be
> tedious at times, but sometimes it is important. We now return you
> to your regularly scheduled letterboxing :-)
>
> --
> Randy "the mapsurfer"
>
I agree EMPHATICALLY with Randy, on all points here.
While I would likely be inclined to allow my stamps & clues to be
reproduced, say, in a guidebook, I do feel that each is a valid art form
to which I retain rights as an artist. Thus, permission oto use is
required. I certainly would never allow them to be incorporated, say,
within another work of art, at least , not without a clear understading,
and with express permission.
Perhaps those whho feel in like manner could have their stamp/clue sets
followed by a "copyrite 1999" line on the page? However, I feel that a
blanket statement covering all would be better, saying, perhaps, "Unless
noted on the individual clue page, all clues and images are not to be
reproduced without permission."
BTW, the web page itself should be copyrighted, perhaps by Dan, or?
Erik
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> It has come to my attention that there are some mis-conceptions
> about art/clue ownership. Here is my take at clarifying the
> issue so that we are all on the same sheet of music:
>
> The artists who create clues and art own their work, unless they
> explicitly disclaim that ownership. No one who maintains the web
> sites, e-mail lists, or network owns it, nor is there shared
> ownership of that work by the subscribers to the e-mail list,
> the hunters of the letterboxes, etc.
>
> I bring this up for two reasons. a) because concern has been
> expressed to me about the fact that I wish to retain the
> exclusive rights to my art. I indeed do wish to do this, simply
> because I do not want anyone publishing or altering it without my
> consent, nor do I wish anyone to make profit on that which I give
> access to freely. (Imagine if someone took a clue who did not know
> what they were doing, and edited it to fix the grammar, and in so
> doing made the clue unsolvable, because the grammar error was
> important to solving the clue -- don't say it cannot happen :-)).
> I believe this is a reasonable position, and was under the
> impression that this was a position shared by most everyone who
> is creating letterbox art.
>
> And b) perhaps more importantly, because I was asked permission
> (in a legitimate way) to reproduce some of the work on the web
> site. I believe I did the correct thing by saying that permission
> had to be obtained from each artist. I would think it was wrong
> if someone else granted permission to reproduce my clues in a
> guidebook, for example, without discussing it with me.
>
> Of course, we can do what we want, I suppose. We can put something
> on the web site that says, "unless otherwise specified, the art here
> is public domain", or "unless otherwise specified, the art here is
> the property of its author", etc. Whatever people want to do, it
> should be clear, and it should be easy for people who do not wish to
> accept the default option to opt out of it.
>
> If people generally agree with this thesis, then no action is
> necessary, I suppose, except perhaps a notation of this fact on
> the web site, which I will add in a few days if there are no
> objections. If people feel I am off base, which is always possible :-),
> then perhaps we should clarify the issue before someone comes along
> and wants to produce and sell guidebooks or the like.
>
> Sorry for the interruption; I know the stuff I tend to bring up can be
> tedious at times, but sometimes it is important. We now return you
> to your regularly scheduled letterboxing :-)
>
> --
> Randy "the mapsurfer"
>
I agree EMPHATICALLY with Randy, on all points here.
While I would likely be inclined to allow my stamps & clues to be
reproduced, say, in a guidebook, I do feel that each is a valid art form
to which I retain rights as an artist. Thus, permission oto use is
required. I certainly would never allow them to be incorporated, say,
within another work of art, at least , not without a clear understading,
and with express permission.
Perhaps those whho feel in like manner could have their stamp/clue sets
followed by a "copyrite 1999" line on the page? However, I feel that a
blanket statement covering all would be better, saying, perhaps, "Unless
noted on the individual clue page, all clues and images are not to be
reproduced without permission."
BTW, the web page itself should be copyrighted, perhaps by Dan, or?
Erik
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: Todd W. Lane (tlane@phoenix.Princeton.EDU) |
Date: 1999-05-07 11:36:00 UTC-04:00
I agree that we should include some sort of copyright statement.
Todd Lane
Department of Geosciences
Princeton University
(609)258-2489
On Fri, 7 May 1999, Bonita McLaughlin wrote:
> Thom Cheney wrote:
>
> >I support a copyright page on the website that makes it clear.. we
> >encourage use of the clues & art for the purpose of finding
> >letterboxes. Any use for redistribution or publishing is otherwise
> >expressly prohibited without the signed permission of the artist. The
> >safety statement that the Graphic Artist Guild recommends is: "All
> >other rights, unless specifically granted are retained by the
> >artist(s)." That pretty much covers any contingencies.
> >
> I think this statement works fine. Shall we add it to our site?
>
> Bonnie
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
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Todd Lane
Department of Geosciences
Princeton University
(609)258-2489
On Fri, 7 May 1999, Bonita McLaughlin wrote:
> Thom Cheney wrote:
>
> >I support a copyright page on the website that makes it clear.. we
> >encourage use of the clues & art for the purpose of finding
> >letterboxes. Any use for redistribution or publishing is otherwise
> >expressly prohibited without the signed permission of the artist. The
> >safety statement that the Graphic Artist Guild recommends is: "All
> >other rights, unless specifically granted are retained by the
> >artist(s)." That pretty much covers any contingencies.
> >
> I think this statement works fine. Shall we add it to our site?
>
> Bonnie
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: erik/susan davis (davisarc@wcvt.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 13:51:09 UTC-07:00
Bonita McLaughlin wrote:
>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Randy, you are right on target. The stamp art that people create and the
> clues they write are their property and should not be reproduced and
> especially not altered without their consent. I think we do need a note on
> the web site that makes this clear.
>
> Bonnie
Actually, I don't have any problem with a not-for-profit entity
downloading and passing out clues. Say a library wants to do a display
on the hobby? Who would object to that. But, if someone wants to
publish, for profit, a guide, I feel I reserve the right to decide if I
want to be included. We should all.
Erik
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>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Randy, you are right on target. The stamp art that people create and the
> clues they write are their property and should not be reproduced and
> especially not altered without their consent. I think we do need a note on
> the web site that makes this clear.
>
> Bonnie
Actually, I don't have any problem with a not-for-profit entity
downloading and passing out clues. Say a library wants to do a display
on the hobby? Who would object to that. But, if someone wants to
publish, for profit, a guide, I feel I reserve the right to decide if I
want to be included. We should all.
Erik
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[L-USA] Re: art ownership
From: erik/susan davis (davisarc@wcvt.com) |
Date: 1999-05-07 13:59:50 UTC-07:00
jdewolf@mail.icrsurvey.com wrote:
>
> I agree w/ Randy, Bonnie, Erik, ... While I don't consider myself an artist in the least, I respect the rights of the artist who developed the clues/stamp art and they should have final say on how and when they're used
>
> JDW
To the contrary (you not considering yourself an artist!).
The bane of young artists is proper regognition. Its a special
vulnerability - you want, crave recognitionn, and may fall into the trap
of giving it away or selling at low cost to avoid rejection. This hobby
has produced some really fine "art" images. The reason I keep asking to
see them on the web page is for the mutual feedback among us. None of us
have anything to be overly modest about. It's your work, it is "art",
and, dang it, you are an "artist" in that sense. Stand tall and proud,
as it helps the rest of us as well!
Erik the Contrarian!
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>
> I agree w/ Randy, Bonnie, Erik, ... While I don't consider myself an artist in the least, I respect the rights of the artist who developed the clues/stamp art and they should have final say on how and when they're used
>
> JDW
To the contrary (you not considering yourself an artist!).
The bane of young artists is proper regognition. Its a special
vulnerability - you want, crave recognitionn, and may fall into the trap
of giving it away or selling at low cost to avoid rejection. This hobby
has produced some really fine "art" images. The reason I keep asking to
see them on the web page is for the mutual feedback among us. None of us
have anything to be overly modest about. It's your work, it is "art",
and, dang it, you are an "artist" in that sense. Stand tall and proud,
as it helps the rest of us as well!
Erik the Contrarian!
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